Friday Happy Hour at the Elysian Fields Bar & Grill

Speaking of Mark Connor, can anyone with some insight weigh in on whether he's any good? I can't figure out whether he is or isn't.

He is Buck Showalters pitching coach, since Buck ain't here then why is the remainder of his coaching staff? I think this has been Ron's biggest mistake, not hiring his entire staff. Howe and Pettis are the only two guys..... Conner, Connor or however you spell it, Hawkins at AAA has had more of an influence. This is getting to be a younger staff, i hate to say it because i am 41 years old, but we need a younger pitching coach to relate to our guys. We also need Millwood gone like i said even before the meltdown last night. How about that one last night HEFE? Got any smart donkey comments about that one? The bottom line and this is why i don't like that guy is this: He doesn't work at his craft, appears to be lazy and is evidently upset over the breakup of his marriage, so send him over the edge or help him whichever. A trade to the Yankees or the Red Sox should help him..... I love those numbers and it shows that someone, Washington is getting through to these guys. I still think a manager is what he is and ours is a .434 kind of guy. But Ron has done a good job this year after his slow start and has earned a chance for next year if we don't go in the tank after the all star break....I just wish he could get past the notoriously slow starts......I want Millwood, Cat, Salt or Laird dealt if they do that and keep everyone else and get a few more young players then i am ok with that.

Hey Ponson, Wash probably didn't want you to smell that Amstel Light on his breath.....Wash said he wouldn't have ended up on the floor like Wade did.....Wade said all he told Chacon to do was look in the bleeping mirror.... Sounds like personal responsibility, Sorry Wade, as a public servant i am telling you people don't want to take personal responsibility, it is always someone else's fault. Sounds like the Rangers may be beating the drum for Chacon, we have had interest in the past.. I would rather have a guy like that who is a fighter. Besides we have that 125 lb lightweight named Wash to take him down.....It would be kind of ironic to say Volquez is a bad character guy then sign Chacon, but it is predictable. Pitching is such a commodity...Danks and Volquez are making me sick, Ham alleviates a lot of my stomach discomfort on Volquez , but Danks and Young make me throw up.....Danks has turned the corner and is going to be a stud, Volquez is headed to 20 wins if he stays healthy. Both in the low 20's we could have been set for years with those two, now we have to wait 3 to 4 more years for the next wave. That is if they don't get traded......Do not, Don't trade any more young pitchers PLEASE, you ain't good at it......

Once again D'god it pains me but I must agree to a small part of your post. At some time the pitching coach has got to be accountable just as a manager has to be accountable. No I'm not talking out of both sides of my moouth...I wasn't in favor of firing Ron Washington....but I am curious about the pitching situation which once again lost us a game last night. We all know they have to give us more hosses to start but .....

All you Chris Davis "rannies" don't get excited because the kid got a hit in his only time up last night. Though I do give him credit for hustle on the bases. And for those of you making Ramierez our new hero he's down around the Mendoza line now. These kids need time and I'm not sure that up here, not every day playing is the right time and place for them.

"How about that one last night HEFE? Got any smart donkey comments about that one?" - Yeah, I got a few.

A)He's now 3-1 since coming off the DL.

B) Every pitcher has bad nights, but on a horrible night, he still gutted it out for 5 innings, saving the bullpen, who'd used their long man the night before.

C) You can wish him into the cornfield all you want, but trading a veteran starter for no return is a foolish move. If there's a good offer for him at the deadline, then take it. but making a move just to make a move is nonsensical.

D) Who takes his spot? Mendoza is providing some stability in a lackluster bullpen and probably needs time to build some arm strength after shoulder trouble. Matt Harrison is getting better at AAA, but there's no reason to rush him if you don't have to. Mathis is on the DL. Murray is on the DL........ Somebody has to go out there and give you 6+ innings a start. Millwood has done that since his last DL stint and he isn't blocking anybody.

F) You cried to trade Padilla for over a year, now he's the bulldog of the rotation. At the end of April when his ERA was under 4 and his record was 2-2 you kept saying that Millwood should have 5 or 6 wins. 6 weeks later he needs to be gone. My point is that your mind changes with the breeze. So, as such, it's difficult to take your opinions seriously about who should stay and who should go.

Take your pick.

As far as your other ill-advised trade ideas, what the hell do you think you're going to get in return for a catcher who's going to be on the DL for the next 4-6 weeks? Laird has to be back and healthy before he has any trade value and making a move, just to make a move....(see 'C' above). Unfortunately Laird's injury will probably prevent him from being moved at the deadline. Unless Salty is dealt for a young, stud pitcher, we'll probably have to wait for the off season for this all to shake out, but for the time being (4-6 weeks) I'm failing to see the urgency of the situation. Please enlighten me.

What is Catlannotto hurting? He's been relegated to the bench now that Maximiliano and Chris Davis are up. Maybe you'd rather they call up another developing kid to take Cat's spot, so that kid can sit on the bench and not get any playing time? More brilliance as usual. If you can get something for Cat, then great. If not, please tell me what harm his remaining on the team is causing.

Thanks Fred, i aint a bad guy. I agree with you on calling these guys up and sitting them. Before Laird got hurt it was ridiculous that Salty was playing twice a week. I know he is gone now, but i would rather have had Stewart as the back up catcher. Hopefully Davis will play every day at first base. This is why i was defending Botts who also is now gone. The young guys are gonna struggle, so they have to play. I have made no secret that Duran is one of my favorites, he hasn't got enough playing time in my opinion. My personal belief is still that the GM, Manager and Team aren't on the same page, they say they are but...... me thinks the manager still wants to win now, the GM has bought himself some wiggle room. We need to all get on the same page and realize we are now playing for 2 years from now which makes 2010 look pretty good if we can develop some pitchers. Any body going to the game tonight? DGOD will be out there cheering for the Rangers.......Seats were free, parking isn't....Hot Dogs and free beer at the tailgate party.....women every where.....

jjordan,
We have the third most injured pitchers in the AL (we have as many as the Angels, A's and Mariners combined). By far, the most runs given up in MLB. Most walks given up. Second worst ERA in MLB (Pirates and Rangers are way behind the pack). Should Mark Conner be held accountable for that?

Hey hefe, Cat is hurting Hicks in a way that he doth not like to be hurt, the wallet as in do you pay 11 million for a guy to pinch hit?????? That is reason enough. I like Cat see him once a week at the Snooty Pig in Grapevine, Texas. He just doesn't seem to fit on this team. Seems like the Rangers overreacted when we lost DeRosa. I don't disagree with you on anything you have said. I like Padilla and Millwood, i don't want to give either of them away. I just believe that Millwood could be better, more consistent, think he isn't because he doesn't work at it. I think if you call a young player up he should play otherwise leave him down. Duran should play, Davis should play, Ramirez should play, they are the future. I like Laird and Salty, the "organization" needs to make a decision on who is the starter then make a deal, again one that is beneficial to the team......The more and more i see Salty behind the plate the more i want to see Ramirez and or Teagarden. I want defense from my catcher first and foremost, if your catcher can't throw anyone out then he ain't a catcher to me. I like Padilla, he is gonna win maybe 20 this year if he stays healthy. He is my type of pitcher and i have backed off of dealing him, he is our ace, if he can stay consistent. So Padilla, Gabbard, Feldman, Hurley, Mendoza, and Mathis aren't bad. Again i wouldn't give Millwood away, but i would trade him to a team that needs him for a playoff run, especially if we can get a young starting pitcher in return.

In my view, if you want to be competitive in 2009 you can't trade workhorse pitchers who can give you 200 innings a year unless you've got someone you've got a high degree of confidence can step in immediately and do the same thing. Millwood is not an ace, but he's a solid number 3 (if he can stay healthy), and those guys aren't that easy to find. I don't see how the Rangers can trade Millwood or Padilla and hope to compete next year. Trying to fill three rotation spots will be tough enough. Trying to fill five will be impossible. And don't forget, even if somebody like Feldman or Gabbard stays solid for the rest of the year in 2008, that isn't enough of a track record to give a high degree of confidence in 2009. Young pitchers are more prone to ups and downs.

A few random number regarding Mark Conner. In his only full season as pitching coach for the Jays ('01) they were 6th the AL in ERA after having been 10th the previous year. In Arizona's debut year with Conner as pitching coach they were 13th in the NL, but jumped up to 2nd in 99 with the aquisition of Randy Johnson and a great year from Omar Daal. The fell to 6th in 2000 and Conner was shown the door along with Buck Showalter.

I don't have a strong opinion regarding Conner, although I tend to lean toward the negative just because our pitching has been so bad. The best thing I can say about him is that the Braves tried to hire him away from us. They seem to know a thing or two about pitching as an organization.

Dealing veteran players on this team can be difficult given how the team has performed so far this season, but I really believe it is in the team's best interest. See Joe Sheehan's short note (at BP) on the Rangers in his 'buyers/sellers' article yesterday - he, for one, says the Rangers should focus less on the .500 record and more on leveraging peaks from Padilla, Bradley, and Vazquez. Not sure I want to move Vazquez, but the other two should be available for the right price - ML ready pitching.

I remember a thread TR had late last season regarding what the Rangers should do with Padilla - this being after his pouting and intentional HBPs were causing turmoil on the team. If memory serves, the first 15 or so posters said cut him, or trade him for a bucket of chicken wings. There were only a few of us who wanted to hold on him to see if his value recovered before moving him. My friends, his value has now recovered, and the time for moving him is within the next 30 days. He is still only one episode from being a burden again - when the majority of fans become ready for his departure once again.

What did the A's do about the hole in their rotation caused by dealing Dan Haren? They got two guys (out of six total players received) who have started a combined 30 games so far this season, both with sub-4 ERAs. This is why the A's are unexpectedly contending the way they are - young pitching. Young pitching is also the only thing keeping the Rangers from unexpectedly competing, too, because the offense is capable. Now I'm not suggesting in any way that JD can get a package for Padilla like the one that Beane got for Haren. My point is that ML-ready pitching is available in a trade when the return is starting pitching - you've just got to have confidence in the scouting (and your scouts need to be right). If we don't have confidence in the scouts, then we need to have a different conversation.

The question about who is going to log the innings today if Padilla (and possibly Millwood) were traded is a good one. We do have a lot of arms to use as starters and long relievers, including Feldman, Hurley, Mathis, Mendoza, Murray, Gabbard and Loe. I believe it has become apparent that this team needs two arms in the bullpen that are capable of pitching several innings, so two of these guys need to be used there. From there we need a couple of guys to step up and start. But before we say that this group can't give us enough innings as starters, let's look at what we've gotten so far: Millwood, the 'ace' of the rotation, averages less than 6 innings per start, while Gabbard averages over 5 in his starts, and the ERAs are basically the same. Hurley averages just under 6 innings/start, too. Sure, I picked the best two examples, but few teams have the luxury of a 5th starter who regularly pitches 6 innings/start.

As I have said before, I would like to see our young guys kept in the rotation longer to work through their struggles. Stop, or at least minimize shuttling them back and forth to OKC. Give them a chance to become battle-tested, to make adjustments. Are we going to win the west in 2008 with the group of pitchers I listed above? No, that's the point. Whether or not Padilla and Millwood are here will not change this fact. However, we may find one or two guys on that list who prove themselves as viable starters this season given a chance to come up and stay up.

Let's don't lose sight of the stated goal - to be a competitive franchise for the long-term. The TB Rays are going to be competitive for years because they stayed with the strategy of stockpiling talent. The Rangers cannot say that they are done stockpiling talent; we still have much further to go, especially with our stud future pitching help currently down in 'A' ball. We can reach our goal faster by dealing guys like Padilla and Bradley at their peaks today for ML-ready pitching. I say let's do it.

Sound arguments, briant77. The tricky question is, when is the team close enough to start looking at actually putting the best looking puzzle together, as opposed to assembling pieces? I can't quarrel with the argument that we're still in the accumulate-the-pieces phase. If you're right about that, then chemistry issues (such as how Byrd, Boggs, Bradley and Vasquez contribute to a winning attitude) are largely irrelevant, because we're just not close enough yet to worry about that. The next nine months will be among the most fascinating since I moved to Dallas in 1986. I hope J.D. and the scouts are up to it.

I just have a question. The last I heard Leo Mazzone did not have a job. If that is true then fire Connor and hire Mazzone. Because we all know his track record in Atlanta.

My question was does anyone know if Mazzone has a job with any organization?

My Guess is that Mazzone is still under contract to the O's but I really don't know what his settlement was. O do that he had one year left.

Briant I do acknowledge your point about injured pitchers

Great diatribe, Briant. I agree with your point about Padilla’s trade value being at its highest right now. Bradley’s too.

I take a slight exception to your beef with “shuttling them (pitchers) back and forth to OKC.”

That has to do with the talent level of that particular pitcher vs. the immediate need at the major league level. Most of the guys in baseball who end up in the back of the rotation or in middle relief will get shuttled back and forth from the major leagues to AAA several times before settling into a role at the major league level. The guys who come up and stay up for good are either a transcendent talent, or on a ML team so bad that they are forced to develop AA level pitchers at the major league level because of a lack of options.

If, a year from now Eric Hurley and Matt Harrison have been up and back down 3 times apiece, there will be credence to that argument, but it’s not like Kason Gabbard is a potential #2 starter if only we’d leave him alone and stick with him in rotation in the majors. Same thing for Mathis, Mendoza, and Loe. Guys with high ceilings will always get a longer look than the guys with more modest talent.

On Mark Connor, I am personally not a fan of his. Talent level on a given team can make a coach look like a genius or a rock. Even when Buck was here the only time we showed marked improvemnt in the pitching was when Hershiser was here. He was definitely a younger guy, had the credentials as a player, and also had to deal with adversity and come back strong. So maybe there is someting to be said for getting someone who can relate. Like Benoit, Connor's quote is that he told Benoit he was all over the place mechanically. Did he give him something to work on to fix it? Or did he say just "get back to basics"?

BTW- Mazzone could not help the O's and he had Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux in Atlant for an extended period.

On the OKC shuttle for pitchers, we should know if their role is starter or reliever by the AAA level. When tehy come up as a starter, leave them that way and let them pitch. Especially on this team where the offense should be able to overcome some of the young guys mistakes while they learn to pitch in the Majors. They are taking this approach with Hurley but I wonder if it hurt Mathis being bounced around.

Ponson...see ya. I didn't ever really hear about a bunch of players voicing opinions that the organization made a mistake. Team chemistry does not appear to have suffered.

The team has a serious quandry with Salty. Pressing at the plate, gets out of postion on breaking balls in the dirt, throwing is still and adventure. Trading him right now would be just plain silly though. The value on him is down regardless of the talent. Right now he's looking more like a DH/backup catcher/backup 1b right now and he still needs more AB's to get his approach back at the plate. Ramirez is likely the better defensive cather on the team while Laird is out, let him catch. Right now, if anyone with speed gets on it is almost as good as a double, especially with the amount of walks this staff gives up.

I wonder if Laird being out had something to do with Millwood...he had that personal catcher thing going.

All i know is this, look what the White Sox did with Danks last year, they put him in let him struggle take his lumps and now he has figured it out, gained confidence and is pitching lights out. I say that to say this, young pitchers are going to struggle more than what an everyday player does. We are going to have to bite the bullet and throw the young guys out there if we ever hope to have an ace. We are going to have to home grow one of those guys, that is why it boggles my mind that we never go out there and sign someone like Porcello two years ago. We are going to have to draft an ace and they better get busy doing it. Because even with all of the positional talent we have if Hurley is the best pitching prospect we have then we are in trouble. I want to see Mendoza, Mathis, Gabbard, Feldman, Hurley, Harrison, Diamond as starters. Which gets us right back to what is the goal and or philosophy or strategy. Are we trying to win now? Which is ok just as long as we don't trade our prospects thinking we are gonna win this year...... or do we have a plan for 2 years from now? At this point, i would deal Cat and/or Salty or Laird and that is about it. But the bottom line is we need starting pitching. The more things change the more they stay the same......

The sad truth of the matter is the coaching staff is only as good as its players. Connor looks like a genius with guys like Randy Johnson in his prime on a staff, those type of players take care of themselves. IF we had a true ace, a leader on this pitching staff then everything would fall into place. Padilla, Millwood are good solid pitchers depending on their present mental outlooks. I want a pitcher that won't accept losing, Padilla turned the corner i believe with his statement that he was embarassed by last year, so maybe he will continue to dominate and be more consistent. We are lacking that one guy with the "eye of the tiger" What does this team look like if Beckett is on it? One pitcher can change the whole darn thing. We can't sign a free agent like that and he is about the only guy that i would, so that leaves us with developing one. Maybe he is down on the farm lets hope so.

I was at the game last night and saw two things. #1 Michael Young shouldn't be playing short stop and C. J. Wilson isn't a closer. Boy is Wilson a flake or what? He comes into the game with Ozzy Osbourne blaring then does his best Ozzy implosion, Wilson's second pitch ends up in the left field bleachers. Hey, maybe it is just me buy i want my closer striking guys out not extending the game. Boy was i sweating and i aint the manager......Which leads me to this, if Wilson isn't the closer and Benoit can't pitch out of the bullpen then why not let them try starting? Could it just be that our guys are being deployed wrong? What about Wright as a starter or what happened to Kam Loe? Ramirez is pitching out of the bullpen, Mendoza aren't those guys starters?????

I was at the game last night and saw two things. #1 Michael Young shouldn't be playing short stop and C. J. Wilson isn't a closer. Boy is Wilson a flake or what? He comes into the game with Ozzy Osbourne blaring then does his best Ozzy implosion, Wilson's second pitch ends up in the left field bleachers. Hey, maybe it is just me buy i want my closer striking guys out not extending the game. Boy was i sweating and i aint the manager......Which leads me to this, if Wilson isn't the closer and Benoit can't pitch out of the bullpen then why not let them try starting? Could it just be that our guys are being deployed wrong? What about Wright as a starter or what happened to Kam Loe? Ramirez is pitching out of the bullpen, Mendoza aren't those guys starters?????

Which leads me to this also, why doesn't the younger generation have their own music? Every where you go, restaurants, ball parks, amusement parks it seems that with 70;s and 80's music. Don't get me wrong i like that stuff, buy how about some Green Day or Nickelback or any current stuff. I don't remember as a kid ever hearing music from the 40's and 50's like they play now. Get your own stuff and i hate bell bottoms and long hair. Everything old is new again......Get a life!!!

Sean...good point on Saltalamachia. He's really a guy without much place on the team with Laird catching. There's something at work here with him however that I think we need to address...I think administration thinks fans will get upset with trading him...you know the whole what did we get for Tex. You and I know that we got a whole slew of talent but not big league ready....and that everyting may turn out ok...someday

Fred, it only my opinion, but I don't think Management worries about what fans might think, regarding a trade. It happens each year to teams throuhgout the League, as fan favorite players move on.

Somewhere over the rainbow......Someday? I say trade Salty and keep Laird. I personally do not know why Salt even wants to catch, it isn't called the idiot's position for no reason. He needs to be blocking about 50 to 75 balls a day thrown into the dirt. He is killing us behind the plate and it is embarassing since we have had Pudge and Sunny behind the plate.....I would rather see Ram back there than Salty. The major leagues isnt' the place to learn how to catch. Do it in the minors and it takes a while, it has to be second nature to block balls in the dirt. You can't let the ball by you period end of story.....