Friday Happy Hour at the Elysian Fields Bar & Grill

Anyone else been reading about the A's, and their approach to what they actually DO call rebuilding?

I really dig Beane's quote on the organization's approach - "We finally know where we're going, and we're going to go full bore."

Sounds like a guy who knows where he is going, and is determined to get there. Shows a little fire, a little determination, a direction.

All things I would love to see JD show. After all, his plan of acquiring one or two top-tier FAs this off-season has failed. I won't criticize him for that - I believe he really tried, but he couldn't convince the top FAs that Texas was a good place to be.

But now that the previous plan is a failure, what's the new plan? Are we doomed to nothing more than dumpster diving for FAs on one year contracts for the next 3 years, hoping to trade them at the ASB for more prospects? The goal of competing in 2009 with this strategy is wholly unattainable.

Oakland has a plan with a goal that is attainable. They're moving veterans for ml-ready talent.

As a child I used to ask, 'others are doing it, why can't we'.

Well?

Who do the Rangers have to trade that is going to return what the A's are got for Dan Haren or what they can get for Joe Blanton?

So we just traded that newly mentally tough pitcher Edinson Volquez for Josh Hamilton. Now I LOVE Hamilton, he played great last year putting up 19 homers in half a season so he definitely gives us some thump. He also plays great defense and has a strong arm so he will look great in center field. I saw him on TLC channel when he was still suspended and he was working on moving Ty Cobb's boyhood home to a new museum site. He had a great attitude, extremely humble, got down and worked in the dirt with the other workers. Solid player with some plus power and defense, I am pumped up about him!!

With that said I hate that we had to trade Volquez to get him. He really seemed to be turning the corner and has made some great pitching performances towards the end of the season. We have NOTHING to show from our DVD boys now. I think McCarthy and Hamilton will both turn out well but with our barren starting pitching in the big leagues I really was looking forward to seeing Volquez and Hurley coming up. I hate trading Volquez...hope Padilla and Millwood can turn it around. Either that or hopefully Harrison, Main, Beavan, and all the young kids will be up quick.

To echo ccourtney above, I love the fact that we got Josh Hamilton, but I hate that we had to lose Eddie Volquez to get him.

But, sometimes you've got to give up big talent to get big talent in return - so I guess I am fine with this trade. At least for now. We needed a guy like this Hamilton kid BADLY - but still, losing Volquez hurts. Don't forget, we also lost another minor league pitcher, Herrera.

Hopefully, this won't turn out to be a bust, and Volquez won't win 15 games or something in Cincy next year. I don't think it will be a bust - Josh Hamilton is, as they say, a player - but on the off-chance it does, I cringe to think of what the Ranger fans will be saying about this trade come this time next year.

Note to Ranger fans: If Sori, Tex, Juan Gonzalez, etc...can be traded, so can Volquez.

I can't get attached to closely to anyone because, HEY, it's a business, and that's the bottom line.

Suppose Hamilton tears it up next season for us---are we willing to pay the guy? I highly doubt it.

Good try JD, to bolster the offense. I know very little about the League where they require the pitchers to wield a bat, so I don't know much about Hamilton...but, I believed Volquez had turned the corner. Oh, well, that's business, and that's a crapshoot.

Only time will tell, like McCarthy for Danks. I at least appreciate JD for giving it a shot. This will probably mean Hurley will come up faster than expected. I believe he has to get his lumps on the Major League team, so I say, bring Hurley up, let him develop, and hopefully he can be the pitcher we think he can be.

But, one word of warning in summary---don't get attached to anyone in particular, because Liverpool-loving Tom cannot stand to pay his players who produce. THAT is a fact.

At least JD is in the arena and trying--I'll give him that.

Bingo - we don't have to pay him. He was a rookie last year and the next two years he will make near minimum. He's not going to be a free agent until the 2013 season.

Speaking of the McCarthy trade, its anniversary is Sunday. Maybe this will become a yearly tradition - a few days before Christmas we trade one high cieling, close to the majors, pitching prospect.

Let's hope this year McCarthy and Hamilton produce.

Here's a little more on Hamilton:

He's 26 years old, a CF, and a pretty good defender from what I've read. In 90 games last year, and 298 AB's, he his .292, with 19 HR's and 47 RBI. He struck out 65 times to 33 walks, had a .368 OBP, and slugged .554. His only problem was he's suspect aganst lefties: only .222 vs. southpaws, and only one of those 19 homers was against a lefty. Other than that, though, this guy is the real deal.

I don't know what his contract situaion is, but if we're gonna trade Volquez for this guy, we better make sure we hang on to him - this is our CF for now and the future, if everything goes as planned.

Well, now thanks to BigD, we do know his contract situation. I didn't see that 'cause I posted my comment just literally minutes after he posted his. YOW - we really are set for now and the future in CF - now, let's hope Hurley comes fast.

Oops....I included Tex above, in the group "traded." My mistake.

Also to clarify, I don't follow the "other" League, as it isn't germane to the Rangers usually. Beg my not knowing Hamilton's contractural status.

As a footnote, lonestar mentioned that he's suspect versus lefties...but otherwise everyone is glowing about him. In our drive to find "COMPETENT" hitters, no one on this blog gives Sammy a pass for not handling righties, as they do Hamilton. If we want a competent DH, Sosa would have been nice on a one-year deal, or two....of course, I forget, we are playing for 2012 and beyond...not trying to win now. Funny, I'd take 30+ HR's and 115+ RBI's from ANYONE on this team---even Sammy. It seems Hamilton has a tough time with lefties like Sammy did with righties. Funny again, in our drive to upgrade our offense, Sammy would have been HEADS and TAILS better than Mr. Botts......Oh, well, lest I forget, we're trying to have a great 2012. Is anyone else impatient with the continuing R-E-B-U-I-L-D-I-N-G and direction after over a decade of futility besides me?

We have a Master Plan in place now, SUPPOSEDLY. We'll see. I hope Hamilton is the real deal, for sure.

Meantime, JD is poring over all the remaining Free Agent lists. I DO NOT want to trade ANYMORE young pitching. Hope some might agree with this assessment.

It is all about the freaking pitching folks. I don't care if you traded the guy for Tyrus Cobb. Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. Volquez turned the corner last year. Their is a reason that other teams wanted this guy. Is Mendoza a starter next year? Did we really have to give them our top minor league pitcher? This is the second year in a row that we have traded our top minor league prospect. How can you build a pitching staff by doing that? Answer is you can't. I hope Volquez wins 15 to 17 games next year so we can get someone who doesn't deal our pitching prospects. Everytime we do this we set ourselves further behind. I don't care who likes this, but Volquez earned his opportunity to pitch next year here. He paid his dues and the Rangers put in the time to help develop this guy. Just when he is on the verge of paying off for us, we deal him. It is just ridiculous! On top of that you get a guy who you can't depend on. Someone who has been in rehab 8 freaking times isn't dependable. I am all for giving people second chances, but, 8 times is about 6 times greater than two. And this on the heels of the steroid scandal. Stiffer penalties and screenings are coming folks. It is too much of a risk and we probably could have gotten him for less than Volquez.

Rangers do their "homework" on Hamilton. I wish the Rangers would study their history and see how many times they have been burned when they deal their top pitching prospects. Darling, Righetti, Danks, etc.... You hold on to your pitching folks it just isn't predictable. My thinking is it isn't an either or situation with Hurley and Volquez. I want both. Which pitcher is more ready to pitch at the major league level Volquez or Hurley. Hurley was just named the top pitching prospect in the minors look out he will be gone by next year. Name one other organization that constantly deals its top pitching prospects? I am waiting. Ridiculous. Ridiculous and more ridiculous. I hope Volquez wins a Cy Young, make it 3 in his career and over 300 games.

Once a drug addict.........?

This is a very high risk guy. The Reds know something we don't. He may have all the talent in the world, but he has made numerous extremely poor choices in the past and there is no reason to expect anything different in the future.

This was a put up or shut up year for Volquez. Apparently the Rangers think his control issues will not improve. Given the Rangers poor record of developing young pitchers, who is to say they are wrong?

When I first heard this trade, I audibly sighed and shook my head. My wife asked me "What's wrong?" I responded that the Rangers are trading young pitching for an older, can't miss number one pick who has been mired in drug addiction and severe problems ever since he started playing pro ball. Sounds like a typical Rangers trade to me. The type that has made their management a laughingstock throughout baseball.

Just wait until the 2008 season when this terrible team shows the league how bad it truly is.

once a drug addict....? Not always a drug addict you insensitive person! Man that comment really made me mad.

dwidegood and tom get real, lets stick to talking about baseball on here, most of the time i disagree with you dwidegod but you have gone way to far this time, I am assuming you have never had a personal struggle and you have no demons in your closet! you unsensitive jerks! do your homework before you write this guy off as having problems....

Yes, he went through 8 rehab stints, I see that as someone who never gave up trying to get over a huge struggle, do you know how addicting cocaine is?

2nd, do you know how many drug tests he has had to go through and will continue to have to go through in order to be re-instated to play baseball? He has been clean now for over 2 YEARS!!! lets see you guys go 2 years without a beer, something that he has done in addition to totally giving up his drug addiction.

Josh played a great season last year, he has two beautiful kids and a wife that he is playing for, he also has a great support system set up with former players and managers like Jerry Narron. I have every confidence that being clean for 2 years he has put his problems past him.

You guys need to get a life and not rain on this amazing story just so you can continue your cynical ways about the Rangers, I don't even know why you get on here dwidgod....

You both are also extremely off in your estimation of his talent. Read the Newberg report and other sources and you will see how lucky we were to get him just for Volquez and Herrera. Then look at the amazing stats he put up in a half a season. he was a 1st round draft pick who was also recruited by top college programs to play quarterback so the man is talented. Then realize that he performed that well after so many seasons out of organized ball, I can't wait to see what he will do this year.

Stick to talking about baseball you two, and don't talk about things (rehabs, drug addictions) that you know nothing about. Once a drug addict....not always a drug addict. Can't wait for 2008 and beyond we have a great centerfielder for the future!

Well, there is some risk in this trade - but for both sides.

I will also give JD credit for making a deal to settle a position that was targeted this off-season. I'll admit, this isn't how I thought we'd get our CF of the future, but I can definitely support this move.

Hamilton was a popular player in Cincy, and I think he will be here, too.

I guess this is the day we say best wishes to Cruz and good luck with his next team, and congrats to Cat, our new DH?

I am with you for the most part on dealing pitchers now, bingo. I still would not oppose dealing one or two of our relievers, since we have a surplus of bodies there. I'd be less excited about dealing additional starters, but I also think you can never say never.

Bingo,
Not hitting righties is 3 times as big a problem as not hitting lefties.

And at 38 or 39, Sosa has little hope of learning that new trick.

If Hamilton (27) fails to learn it over the course of the whole season, then he can platoon with someone who hits both (e.g. Murphy).

My guess is that one more big trade is coming involving Salty (How about Salt, Benoit, Byrd and Gabbard for Santana?)

If it includes an extension on Santana, that is.

eight-g's: Even with Sammy's "futility" hitting righties, as you indicate, even at his age, he STILL projected to 30+ HR's and 115 RBI's!!! NO one on this popgun offense team can claim anywhere near that. I don't care if the man is 38, or 48, a la Julio Franco--he still produced.

I'm all about production. So, even with Sammy's avg. against righties, he still produced. Case Closed. Someone can bring up age, "futility" against righties, but after being benched for the treasured Jason Botts midway through the season, Sammy still rang up over 20 HR's and 90+ RBI's. And we were looking for offense?

Anyway, I realize his best is past, but let's face it....we "AIN'T" exactly going to impress anyone with our offense this year....and Sammy would have helped. Of course, I realize we are playing for 2012 and beyond.

HOORAY for Hamilton! I hope he produces and is a model citizen. We can use him. With the DH spot reserved for Mr. Botts, it kinda makes me long for (SHUDDER AT THE THOUGHT:) Brad Wilkerson.

I, too hope Volquez realizes his potential--I just wish it had been for our venerable Rangers.

This trade is further evidence we are trying to win in 2012. Long may our lonely Divison banners wave, from over a decade ago. It will be another decade before we can fly those. . .unless we can sneak up on our Division Rivals. Heaven knows, there are the lowest expectations since 1972.

Courtney, you need to get over your Josh Hamiton love fest.

My comments are not "insensitive". Hamilton's drug use is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that no one seems to want to talk about. Have you got the full details on how many times this guy has gone "off the reservation". The Rangers just traded for Roy Tarpley, a multiple time loser, who had supposedly come clean. How did that work out for the Mavs the last time they signed Roy?

Let's see, he went through 8 rehab stints. What difference will 9 make? Now that he has been traded to the worst team in baseball, will his depression overcome him when the Rangers are in the process of losing 10 out of 12 games?

As far as him not having a beer for two years and being clean during that time, how do you know? He is one binge from being a big, fat zero.

Anything that keeps this guy off the field IS BASEBALL. If he hadn't been a drug addict, he would have 3-4 major league seasons to evaluate. Because his drug abuse and weak mind kept him off the field, we have one half season to judge.

We traded one of our most promising young pitchers (baseball's hottest commodity) for a high risk player with only half a major league season behind him along with 2 steamer trunks of poor choices. Any other analysis of this trade that does not include this guy's checkered past is woefully incomplete.

Tom,

He would never have been reinstated by Major League baseball without passing an entire battery of drug tests thats how I know he has been clean.

Did you even read what I wrote. He has passed a multitude of drug tests for over 2 years now. 2 plus years of being clean. I think thats plenty of cause for good faith.

Weak mind? Yeah, it takes a real weak mind to finally put a horrible debilitating drug addiction in the past, especially when so many others would have completely given up.

As far as depression over Ranger losses, I guess you don't keep up with the national league, the Reds were like the Rangers North. They went through many a losing periods.

I love people who spout off sterotypical arguments without getting any of the facts straight! Awesome!

Bingo, why are you unable to answer the big Sosa question? If he's so productive why aren't there multiple major league teams offering him lucrative deals?

As far as the leftie/rightie question, there are far, far more right handed major league pitchers than left handed ones and IF Hamilton isn't able to get better against lefties he'll still play a high caliber of defense in centerfield while Sosa, to put it kindly is a below average fielder.

And to Tom, who I'm sure is quite an expert on addiction and recovery, you failed to point out that after that 8th stint in rehab the man has been clean for over 2 years. And as an expert in addition I don't have to tell you that drug rehab very rarely works the first time and the number of failed attempts at sobriety is meaningless when sobriety is achieved and mantained.

hefe300, I'll explain it another time---Sammy's age maybe would scare any potential suitors away. Period. He would be limited to the American League as DH, also, thus limiting his offers.

Bottom line, which you or no one can explain satisfactorally: The man produced RBI's and HR's far and away what anyone else on this club did---righties, lefties, until he was benched for the illustrious Botts.

Bottom Line (versus Righties and Lefties): 21 HR's, and 91 RBI's in JUST OVER HALF the season. Ain't bad, or would you say that is a statistical glitch or phenomenon?

I'm looking at the bottom line, and I don't see anything but what he hit over the wall and drove across the plate. I haven't reviewed all of the statistics in the League, but I'm willing to bet he was one of the most productive DH's in the League. I remember WHEN HE WAS ACTUALLY PLAYING the first half of the season, he was always in the top 10 producers...can you deny we will miss his pop? If you do, well, I'll wish you a Merry Christmas despite your lefty/righty focus. Bottom line, he produced, and that is with no protection in this lineup. Case is closed. No one can prove that he didn't hit what he hit...and projected out, he would have hit over 30+ HR's and drive in over 115-120 RBI's. That ain't bad. There is no way to explain this either: During the time he was in the lineup everyday in the first half, he faced mostly righties, based on your hypothesis, and still was always in the top 10 producers. Case closed again. Mr. Botts can't lace up Sammy's cleats. Book it. Of course, the nameless owner won't pay a producer, so he'll keep Botts because he's cheap--rebuilding, or not.

I would like to pose a question to management: Just because we are rebuilding, is there any rule that says we can't keep someone who can produce now? Must we wait until 2012 for everything to gel?

Hefe300, one more thing--why don't you do a breakdown of Botts, Blalock, Wilkerson, Michael, Byrd, Bradley, etc...to determine where each of these guys has more trouble against--lefty or righty, and does it really matter when you look at the numbers driven across the plate? NO! As an my old insurance manager used to say: "Don't tell me about the storms you encountered--tell me about the ships you brought in." A very apt point on lefty-righty.

I wouldn't defend Sammy so robustly had he not produced. Seems you would be happy he produced. Wish we had about 8 other players on the field who could produce like him.

Merry Christmas hefe300, TR, lonestar, eight-g's, dwiregod, wolff, keibarr, etc...I know I forgot somebody.

Bingo, I never intended to malign the contributions that Sosa made to the club in the ’07 season. I was on the fence about him being signed in the first place and he did nothing as a player or person in his time here to warrant contempt.

My problem with him being here in the future is that he would be an old player on a rebuilding team costing at bats to much younger players on whom determinations have yet to be made. I think with the current roster and the ample talent assembled in the minor league system that this team will be poised to compete after the ’09 season.

The Angels are clearly better than we are right now and Sammy isn’t enough of a difference maker to sway that tide, so I’d rather a player like Nelson Cruz or Jason Botts get some more major league playing time to separate the wheat from the chaff now, while we’re out of contention so that we know what we have moving forward. If they don’t cut muster then they should be cut loose, but with Josh Hamilton and Milton Bradley already tagged for a significant amount of playing time in the outfield/DH spots it leaves a limited number of opportunities for Cat and Byrd as well as the aforementioned Botts and Cruz. The presense of David Murphy nonwithstanding, adding the aged Sosa to that mix would only further muddy those waters.

Sosa will be long gone in ’09 and ’10. I can’t definitively say the same thing about Cruz or Botts. And as EMC has pointed out multiple times in this neighborhood, early results are not necessarily an indication of future returns. A player’s first 200 to 250 big league at bats are not always an accurate judgment of what they will do in the future. I’m not guaranteeing success for Botts or Cruz but I’d rather see them given a chance than see Sosa, who is clearly not a part of the future of this franchise, flail away against right handed pitching.

In summation I will say that if Sosa were a 30 homer 100 RBI type of talent he would be sought after by many clubs. As it is he’ll be marketed by his agent as a part time DH who can mash lefties.

Merry Christmas to you too, Bingo and keep those just for the heck of its coming. I enjoy TR’s and yours as well. I also enjoy the debate and look forward to more in the future.