Of Kenny Rogers, Summa Theologica and the pursuit of pitching
There is an institutional inevitability, inexorable expediency and irresistible obsequiousness in the Rangers renewed interest in free agent pitcher Kenny Rogers.
As St. Thomas Aquinas once wrote in Summa Theologica:, " The more deeply something is impressed upon the soul, the less does it drop out of the soul.”
Or as Matthew McConaughey said, "We are Marshall."
The simple fact is a Rogers-Rangers reunion is doable, a convergence of perceived interests with no more than token resistance for perception is easier to grasp than intentions, that which is already believed to be known is readily believed again and the sustained deviation into the unknown or deep delving of the past is uncomfortable.
It is about the potential gratification of what might be gained here and now rather than what someday and somewhere might be, a concept that garners big words but little patience and interest. But Dr. Graham may be right when he talks about the magic in the night because Nate Wright never did get any satisfaction, Gerald Phelan caught the ball and the trombone player was splattered in the end.
Meetings are made, lunches are taken and plans are hatched but fate, culture and DNA can not be readily tossed aside. Triskaidekaphobia has no place here even if there is a readable script from the Dirty Dozen.
That hope springs eternal every spring is the mantra that has carried baseball up from the Elysian Fields and those who make the potato chip will forever be rich.
Yes St. Augustine said, “Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.” But more important to the Rangers immediacy is the article of faith that says, "You can never have enough pitching."
Yes, the Rangers have spoken to Scott Boras about Rogers. They have talked to him about Alex Rodriguez and perhaps showed just enough hesitation and a gleam of hope springing eternal to allow Boras to throw another team into the perceived field. Get that message into the right hands and possibly get the right person nervous. In this case, that would be Angels owner Arte Moreno, but the reverse could also be true.
Don’t think the Rangers haven’t talked about Barry Bonds either, temptation lies in all corners of the free agent market. The Rangers seem intent on passing there but nobody has starting carving any turkeys either.
The bottom line is the Rangers want to win. Tom Hicks wants to win. Jon Daniels wants to win. Ron Washington wants to win. The fans want to see them at least trying to win, that is the moral code that is in place here. They look everywhere for answers, including the well-known past.
T.R. Sullivan
Toby
TR great article. I think you’re right about the fans at least wanting to see the Rangers trying to win. The Rangers don’t have a good enough team to compete next year, as it stands now. They have a great farm system, Jim Callis even says that they have a top 5 farm system. However, if Daniels makes a few upgrades this offseason then who’s to say. Maybe adding Kenny, Torri, Barry, and Kerry would make them a competitive club. I like the idea of signing Kenny Rogers. He has had success here and I think he can have future success here if healthy.
If skyranch said it was a great article, I will agree rather than admit I had problems reading it. But then I re-read it right-to- left and it cleared up nicely.
Kenny and Millwood would be a great one-two combo.
I would rather have Sosa than Bonds.
“Strive not be a success, but rather to be of value.” —Albert Einstein
“To do is to be.” —Jean-Paul Sartre
“To be or not to be, that is the question.” — William Shakespeare
“Sho-be-do-be-do” — Frank Sinatra
Well, I’m glad skyranch understands, I’ve read this several times, and still don’t. Reminds me of sleeping through one Father Mehok’s sophomore philosophy classes, either that or an episode of “Kung Fu”.
P.S. If the Rangers owner and GM are serious about winning now – then don’t bother negotiating with a 43 year old headcase pitcher who is at the end of his career. My advice: load up the prospect truck point it in the direction of Minneapolis and get Johan Santana (and sign him to an extension immediately) – give Vincent Padilla some lovely parting gifts and send him back to Nicaragua, put Eric Hurley in the rotation and let him take his lumps (didn’t hurt Cy Young winner C.C. Sabathia when Cleveland pulled him out of AA in 2000 and stuck him in the Indian’s rotation).
What was that article all about. Rogers is a done deal. He will come here on Hicks terms which equates to financial flexibility, cheaper than on the open market, because he wants to pitch here. I am for it, regardless of his criminal conviction. My question is why didn’t Arlington P. D. arrest the nut when they witnessed the assault? No more than 2 years though. Here we go again, the Rangers want to win know, every year we go through this. Last year it was Lofton, Gagne, and Catalanotto. Who is it going to be this year? Rogers, Bonds and who else. I want long term solutions, and i don’t want the minor leagues depleted. Rogers is a short term answer maybe good for 1 or 2 years at the most. Go get Willis, he is still young, Cabrera, still young. These are long term solutions. Patch work is what Daniels and Washington are doing, they are fighting for their careers. Both maybe have 1 or 2 years left, i don’t think Washingon has that long. Maybe 1/2 of a season.
Hunter wants a 7 year deal for $105 million. That is the only way he comes here. Forget that unless the last two years are not guaranteed and have a low buyout. Hunter is reportedly a health nut and maintains a strict regimen. He may stay productive until he is 39 but i doubt it.
My question to TR, is why are you always writing what i write about the day before? At this rate, i should be getting some sort of fee from you and the Rangers. It is all about the starting pitching people. So who are the starting five out of Millwood, Rogers, Gabbard, Padilla, Volquez, Loe, McCarthy, Mendoza? I would like to see us go to the Marlins and ask them what would it take to get Willis and or Cabrera. You can start with Blalock and go from there.
Can you imagine Rogers, Padilla and Francisco sitting on the bench together. What an axis of misanthropy we would have there!
I wouldn’t gripe too much about Gagne and Lofton, dwidregod. Where do you think we got 25% of the improved farm system? I think it’s always worthwhile to take a shot or two on a cheap veteran just for that reason. It could result in two or three quality prospects in July. It’s one area Daniels hasn’t gotten nearly enough credit for. Everyone talks about what he got in the Gagne trade, in particular, but no one mentions that he had to be smart enough to sign Gagne before he could trade him.
RW and JD must be feeling a litle heat to win for the team to even consider Rogers. I don’t often use the word, but, to talk to Rogers about coming back would be just plain stupid.
Torii to the Rangers for 6/$90 – that’s the latest rumor, which will be replaced by the next one. I just don’t see it. In 2010, when we might actually be close to competitive, we will be paying two past-their-prime players (including MY) $28 million/year.
I do want to see the team be aggressive when looking at trades and FAs, but the approach and the names mentioned so far do not follow any plan that I can see. What is the plan?
Team management needs patience, because this team is going to be as bad in 2008 as it was in 2007, and it could be worse when looking at its record. With the current approach, RW will likely be fired at the ASB or the end of the season, because he is getting impatient and unsupportive of youth, and because he is losing credibility with management, his own players, and the fans. At least we have a manager-in-waiting ready to step in when RW is shown the door.
This is off the topic but I just read that ARod is about to re-sign with the Yankees but the Rangers get to keep the $21 mil. How did Hicks pull that one off? What does he have on ARod?
The Rangers obligation ended when Rodriguez became a free agent. The Yankees are re-signing him as a free agent.
T.R.,
I have no idea what your blog meant. If it meant that you think the Ranger’s pitching staff would be improved with Kenny in the rotation than I agree with you. If you meant that it would be silly to require him to make a better apology before he would be allowed to play baseball here again than I agree with that too.
Brad
Um… well, TR, I think I understand what you’re trying to say here… if what you’re trying to say is simply that the Rangers are trying to form a winning team, and Rogers would be part of that. Or, if you’re just trying to shoot one waaayy over the head of all us dumb Texans here (like me), well, kudos, you did it.
But IF Kenny does come back (which is far from a done deal, dwidregod) where in the heck are we gonna put him in the rotation? Supposedly, we want to look at our young pitchers (Volquez, Gabbard, Hurley, ext.), so we probably will want want two or three spots open for that… and supposedly McCarthy has a garunteed spot in the rotation… that’s 3 of 5… and then we’re supposedly commited to giving the biggest mental midget in the majors (Vicente Padilla) a spot… and then there’s Millwood… who do we axe?
I’m not saying we shouldn’t bring Kenny here, but I think we need to make a choice: either Kenny or Padilla. If we do bring Kenny back, Padilla must go, somehwere, somehow – because if we’re in a deveopmental role right now, we MUST have those 2 or 3 slots open for our young pitchers. And becuase we really don’t want those two sitting on the bench together – as mniblick said above.
I enjoyed even what I didn’t understand, T.R., if only because you quoted Thomas and Augustine all in one post!
The theory behind my practice (Montessori education) is rooted in Thomas (and Aristotle). “We learn best what first engages our assenting will” (and “to the mind first through the senses”).
But it is Lonestar whom I want to echo, with one slight alteration.
If Rogers is in, then MILLWOOD should be out, because they can each still be great now, but not soon hereafter.
I disagree with most people on Padilla. He has more upside than Rogers or Millwood… even this year, but certainly next. And yet his trade value is currently lower than either of theirs.
Its a similar situation to the difference between Cruz and David Murphy. Cruz’s long-term up-side is higher and yet his current trade value is lower. If we’re not going to develop both, then let’s trade Murphy, whose stats’ small sample size makes him, the lesser, the more attractive.
If we get Rogers, then we have just turned Millwood into a nice trading chip, and even signed another one for the July trade deadline, by which time we should be able to have found our reliable youth (e.g. Mendoza for now, Hurley in ’09).
Padilla is too much to trade for Sexson, and so is Millwood, especially if we’d be paying most of Sexson’s salary, but…
I do like the upside to the risk of getting Sexson–resurrect him, and trade him at the ASB– and yet NOT at the expense of losing someone whom we might need down the road.
If we do get him AND Rogers for money only, then we’re in a good position to put together an attractive package (e.g.Millwood, Laird and Murphy) for, say, Tim Lincecum, SF’s young SP on the block, and a prospect.
I want us to pursue Fukudome, but if that means not developing Byrd, Murphy AND Cruz, because the organization is bent on Torii too, then we should trade one of them (i.e. Murphy while his value is high.)
And if we do get 2 OF’s via free agency or trade, then we SHOULDN’T get a first baseman, afterall, because we’d have enough (actually or potentially) valuable hitters to fit into the line-up at DH and 1B (Cat, Botts, and Blalock included).
Maybe it’s not a 1st Baseman, but a short-term 3rdBaseman we should pursue (Corey Koskie?) so that we have a PLAN B (DH or 1B) for Blalock if he still can’t throw by March.
Ahhh, hope for the Rangers, for baseball in general, so analogous to true faith:
“My burden, my love, by which I’m carried wherever I carry.”
— St.Augustine
Cheers,
Eight(9)
this is the strangest post of all and it’s shocking there is no Latin phrases.
My sense is that our favorite Catholic Altar Boy was saying in his most politically correct way is the Rangers are going to sign Rogers but they shouldn’t.
Sounds to me like he thinks the Rangers are signing Rogers because people like what he has done in the past and it will create the perception that they are trying to win now.
He made several illusions to the Hail Mary Pass so if I read that right, he thinks that signing Rogers would be a Hail Mary prayer.
That’s the best I could come up with.
Grand Jury indicts HR King. Bonds goes to Federal Prison not Hall of Fame. 4 counts of Perjury and one count of Obstruction of Justice. This will equate to about 18 months, ala Mr. Peter Edward Rose. How much money has the Federal Government spent on this case, a 4 year investigation, probably over 18 million dollars. Remember you heard it hear in the spring that Barry was going to prison. Perjury and Obstruction of Justice are big things with the Federal Boys, unless you are President Nixon. Too bad Barry doesn’t have a Gerald Ford around to hand out a Presedential pardon. So have fun on the prison baseball team Mr. Bonds. How is this for a headline, Barry Bonds out of Prison. His career is effectively over. Say goodbye to the Hall Of Fame. Yankees bid against themselves and reward bad behavior. 27 million @ year give me a break. No one, especially Mr. May is not worth that kind of money. Wait it out, and pay the guy about 22 @ year, that i can live with. The only reason he is reaching out to the Yankees is because no one else is going to come close to 27 million. How much money is enough? 270 million is 95 million more than his previous contract. A-Rod your Daddy ain’t on the 100 dollar bill. He won’t be found inside of the cash. Ask your Psychiatrist, Counselor or Therapist, whatever you call them.
I will take Murphy over Cruz anyday. Murphy i think is going to be a player. Cruz seems to be a head case.
You and most people will, dwi-dre. …. because most people aren’t comparing their years of Minors’ stats, or seeing Murphy’s (comparable) 1st year (w/Boston) in the Majors vs. Cruz’s first year.
That’s why we should trade Murphy (if the Rangers are cutting one of our 3 youth out of the OF picture).
If we’re giving up on one of them, and giving in to the pressure of making an immediate splash (which might keep us from signing who we need to put us over the top in 2010 0r ’11), then we should trade the one with the PERCEIVED higher value instead of the one with the better track record over the long haul.
And then we should PLAY that one (Cruz) all season, come **** or high water.
I’d prefer we develop BOTH, but if one is getting pushed out, it should be in a trade rather than back to AAA, where they have nothing left to prove. They need MLB experience.
Nelson Cruz and Victor Diaz are essentially the same player. Diaz is about 3 inches shorter. Both hit about the same at AAA Cruz .352 in 166 At bats with15 HR and 45 RBI. Diaz .321 14 HRs, 65 RBI’s in 291 at bats. The problem is neither has had success at making the transition to the Majors. Diaz had better stats, but didn’t get to play enough up here in my book. Oh and Diaz is 1 year younger than Cruz. Does anyone really think that Washington is going to put Cruz out there everyday and let him make the next step. It should have happened last year. But Washington kept pulling the guy. If i were King, then Murphy is my Lf, Davis is my 1B, 2B Kinsler, SS Young, 3B Metcalf, CF Boggs
RF Cruz/
C Teagarden/Saltalamacchia
DH Diaz/Botts
Duran would be up here somewhere. Padilla would be my closer if no one would take him via trade. Blalock and Catalanotto would be traded.
It isn’t an either/or situation to me. Lets go young. Both should play. Most recent World Series winners, excluding the Boston Red Sox didn’t really have a stunning everyday lineup. Podsednik was on that team and who else, besides Pierzynkski can anyone else name. I sure can’t. What they did have was starting pitching and a strong bullpen. Unfortunately for us we are going to have to have a strong offense because of where we play. The bottom line is we repeat the same mistakes every year, failing to assess our team properly. Every year we dellude ourselves into thinking that we are 1 or 2 players away from competing. Well we aren’t we don’t have the starting pitching and until we address that issue and i am not against Rogers coming here, but he is a short term. I want long term, because that is what i am in it for the long term. But as a famous economist once said, ” In the long run we are all dead.”
The plot thickens: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain is he truly a wizard – or is it just a failed baseball player with a law degree and large ego?
As Cyrano said the decision has been made: “I may climb perhaps to no great heights, but I will climb alone”
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2302080&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det
Agreed on most, King DWI-DRE for God.
If you were King, you wouldn’t make the mistake of signing guys who are going to start their decline just when we need them most.
I’m with you on playing all the youth, and closing w/ Padilla after trading Laird, Blalock and a decent prospect to Boston for Lester (their 6th starter)…
or Blalock to SF for Lincecum and Laird to Boston for Crisp.
Crisp is weak offensively, but some rate him #1 defensively, which we need. And he’s young.
I was suggesting we wait on trading Blalock, but actually the huge question mark of his fielding or needing to DH hand-cuffs us, and his numbers were some of his best ever last year, making him maybe as tradable as ever and more helpful to us in what he brings.
Then Davis and Andrus could duke out in Spring Training who plays 1B. Cat and Botts are better at 1B than untested Davis.
Sorry, make that
“Then Davis and Andrus (and German) could duke out in Spring Training who plays
3B”– (not 1B)
Or just plan on Blalock at DH, and make sure we make our best effort to get our temporary– while developing our future– 3B.
But not Miguel Cabrera– as great as he is– for the same reason that we shouldn’t get Hunter or Rowand: when we need them at their prime (’10 or ’11) they’ll be starting their decline.
How about taking a flyer on Corey Koskie until Davis or Andrus is ready?
Actaully, 8gleasons, I think Andrus is a top rated defensive SHORTSTOP. He’s no utility player, and with how horible Mike Young can be at short, I don’t see why there would be any reason to move him from there. Actually, if Elvis is gonna rocket through system that fast, then maybe we should move Young to LF – he’s got a good arm, and since our OF depth isn’t all that impressive, maybe we should consider that.
But if you want a good glove over at 3rd, I think you’ve forgotten about someone – Travis Metcalf.
I haven’t forgotten, but
people,whose baseball opinions I repect more than my own, don’t see him as a solution– and yet, before replying to you, Lonestar, I checked his Minor League stats, and it seems I should differ with THEM, not you.
Talk about rocketing through the system! Metcalf has held his own in MLB after only 3 years (one in AA, none in AAA!)
So, yes, maybe we should plan on Metcalf at 3B, Blalock at DH, & therefore Cat (vs. Righties)/Botts (vs. lefties) at 1B.
Regarding your suggestion of OF,
a) M.Y. has already changed positions once for the Rangers, & it’s hard to teach an old dog– especially one who’s finally gotten the praise he deserves– new tricks;
and
b)Our outfield is already overcrowded with better fielders than MY would be out there, and it sounds as though it’s only about to get more crowded.
p.s. DWI-DRE,
Regarding YOUR quote, “Nelson Cruz and Victor Diaz are essentially the same player”
(which I almost agreed with regarding offense),
it might be worth checking out this winter’s stats from JAMEY NEWBERG:
In the Dominican League:
Nelson Cruz is playing tee ball through six games (.417/.481/.667, one homer).
An 0-10 streak has pulled Victor Diaz into the gloomy depths of a sub-.100 batting average (.098/.213/.317).
In the toughest of the Winter leagues, from an albeit small sample size,
Cruz’s OPS (On-base + Slugging %)is more than DOUBLE
and his AVERAGE more than QUADRUPLE that of DIAZ.
I’m back to really preferring Cruz over Diaz right now in offense (as well as defense).